Really though, I don’t think this is as broad a movement as Steve says it is.

Me? I think this is a policy problem that could probably use some reform, ginned up into a “The Other Is Coming!” crisis by Republicans who have an election coming up. The only broad movement I see is the one that got millions of immigrants into the streets when Sensenbrenner, at the request of the White House, threatened to make illegal immigrants felons.

I’d rather have that than a democratic congress. (Don’t get me wrong, everyday I think the Republicans should be voted out, until I get a look at who would be voted in if that happens). Everyone plays to their base, the republicans just tend to win when the do, democrats tend to lose.

*Sigh.* Ananth, you and I have, shall we say, differing assessments of Democratic electoral strategy. Not to mention Republican governing acumen.

Really though, I don’t think this is as broad a movement as Steve says it is. I think the issue is one of many issues fragmenting the Republicans and they’re going to lose the majority because they keep doing things like this. They’ve got the pro-environment evangelicals, the (quietly) pro-business opponents of amnesty or worker programs, the anti-Rumsfeld pro-military, the anti-oil and pro-oil, the ‘true’ small government fiscal conservatives, they’re all over the place.

Sort of like Democrats really.

If it happens to stole the base, and helps the Republicans keep the house and Senate, well good for them. I’d rather have that than a democratic congress. (Don’t get me wrong, everyday I think the Republicans should be voted out, until I get a look at who would be voted in if that happens). Everyone plays to their base, the republicans just tend to win when the do, democrats tend to lose.

Listen, I don’t think the world is going to end or anything but, this a problem that we could have totally avoided, and is a problem that needs to be addressed in a way that doesn’t lead to the same situation 20 years down the road.

Are we having a discussion about immigration now?

Not really. Mostly, I’m just being publicly disgusted with the latest Republican iteration of the Southern Strategy. They need to stroke the base, and in this case, the area of the base they’re concentrating on is the racists.

I thought steve was just waxing on about how racist people are who want any kind of orderly process to immigration.

Didn’t say that. I was waxing about how racist people are who jump on this “build a wall, send ‘em back to Mexico” bandwagon. That’s the point, of course. That’s who this is for. It’s theatre, like the gay marriage amendment, or the flag-burning amendment.

The simple fact of the matter is that almost everyone would want to come to the United States and work if the could (ok not everyone but a lot of people). As a country, we decide how many we let in, not those who want to come in. We have to keep orderly, and we need to ensure that assimilate into the culture. The thing about America that keeps things like France from happening is the assmilation of those people.

Just letting people in is the dumbest immigration policy I have ever heard. Yes most of these people are decent and hardworking, but as a country we should determine who brings the most to the table for our country. Instead of sending bright foreign students home after getting their education, we should be putting them in the front of the line. And the controlled migration of uneducated, unskilled labor directly effects the poorest, unskilled, and uneducated Americans. These factors have to be all considered before we have an open door policy.

Also, 750 is a small price to pay for citizenship. It’s really is unfair for those who took the time to follow the rules.

Guest workers - it doesn’t work. Just let people in.

I’m okay with the fine. $750 for Amnesty and the possibility of applying for a Visa doesn’t seem like such a big deal - sure, a lot to save up for, etc., but I bet people would pay it and it would shut up the assholes for a while.

However, are you saying that people here illegaly should be given amensty with no penalty? What about the people who have been waiting patiently to come legally? What kind of message does that send? This isn’t an abstract thing, My cousin has been waiting for a greencard for the last 6 years. She can’t even come visit now, because it’s hard to get A visa while on the list? Amnesty is unpalatable on principle for a lot people. I know we aren’t going deport everyone. Why is a path to legalization that includes a fine contributing to permanent underclass?